2021 State of Marketing to Engineers Research Highlights

Hear from the marketing strategists responsible for the 2021 State of Marketing to Engineers research report as they discuss key findings, their biggest surprises, and give advice on how marketers should approach the dynamic year that is 2021.

For the fourth consecutive year, TREW Marketing and GlobalSpec have partnered to research and survey the tactics, digital content types, and social platforms that are most effective for reaching engineers. Who better to join me in walking through some of the key findings of the 2021 State of Marketing to Engineers Report than my research partner, Jenn Corcoran, Marketing Director for GlobalSpec. 

2020 brought unprecedented challenges with the COVID-19 crisis, and this year’s report included questions about how engineers are navigating the unexpected emphasis on virtual interaction and where they are turning now to learn about new products and trends.

This year, probably not coincidentally, was also the largest sample size to date for this research – with nearly 1,400 engineers and technical professionals responding. Survey respondents came from a diverse set of industries, from engineering services, energy, and aerospace/defense to automotive, semiconductor, and materials.

In this episode, Jenn and I will walk through some of the key findings, give our own takes on implications for marketers, and brainstorm new aspects that might be interesting to explore in future research studies. 

Resources

• 2021 State of Marketing to Engineers Research Report and Webinar
• Additional GlobalSpec Research: Manufacturing Content Marketing -- Benchmarks, Budgets & Trends
• GlobalSpec Blog: Marketing Maven
• Jenn on LinkedIn
  
  

Transcript

The following transcript was created by an AI Bot which has yet to learn slang words and decipher Wendy's Texas accent. While it is no substitute for watching/listening to the episode, transcripts are handy for a quick scan. Enjoy!

Hey, everyone, you might be aware that for the past four years, TREW Marketing has partnered with GlobalSpec  to produce research on how engineers seek and consume information to make purchase decisions. Well, to on today's show, we'll be highlighting our twenty twenty one state of marketing to Engineers Research Report findings. It's a great year to dive into this report because we have a lot of implications of covid on how engineers behavior changed and what to expect as we go through this year as we're not exactly business as usual, are we?

So you can find a report on our TREW marketing website in the resources section. We also have a webinar on the report, but today will be walking through some of those findings and just discussing what it means to us and what the future of the report may hold. Let's do this.

Welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered. Your source for building trust and generating demand with technical content. Here is your host, Wendy Covey.

Hi and welcome to Content Marketing Engineering. On each episode, I'll break down an industry trend challenge or best practice in reaching technical audiences. You'll meet colleagues, friends and clients of mine who will stop by to share their stories. And I hope you leave each episode feeling inspired and ready to take action. Before we jump in, I'd like to give a brief shout out to my agency. TREW Marketing Crew is a full service agency located in beautiful Austin, Texas, serving highly technical companies.

For more information, visit trewmarketing.com. And now on with our podcast.

Hey, everyone. Well, today I'm joined by Jenn Corcoran. She's the marketing director at GlobalSpec. Hi, Jen.

Hi, Wendy. It's so nice here. I feel like I've been seeing you quite a bit lately.

I know. Exactly.

Exactly. So Jen and I worked very closely together to recently launch the 2021 State of Marketing to Engineers Research Report. And so today I've invited her on so we can talk all about it and share some interesting findings with you.

Yeah.

So before we jump in, Jen, a little known fact about you before you join GlobalSpec, you were once a columnist and a political correspondent in Costa Rica, the Costa Rican News. Wow. OK, so let's back up. OK, born and raised in New York.

No, I was born and raised in Vermont and a small town. I went to college in New York and there I studied abroad in Costa Rica.

So there it is. Yes. So after I graduated, I moved back to Costa Rica for a year and a half. And that's where I kind of got into writing for the news. And I taught English when I was there as well. Very cool.

And I sat in the San Jose area or. Yeah, it was a it's a great it's pretty much the only city in Costa Rica. So it's the only place kind of infrastructure. And then you get to all the beaches from there very easily. Very easily.

Well, I've spent quite a bit of time on all the beaches in Costa Rica, mainly on the far Pacific coast, on the peninsula.

So we've been all the way north and all the way south to the Muppets Santa Teresa area.

Yeah. Oh, that's yeah. I've lived a little bit of that right now. Yeah. I think we all could get out of this winter weather and go hop on a on a four wheeler and go to the beach.

Yeah, a little bit. All right. Well after we're done with this interview, let's, let's get to planning.

We'll tell tell us tell our listeners a little bit about global spac, those that aren't familiar with you. Yeah. For sure. So we'll speak. We provide solutions, data driven solutions for industrial marketers to help them promote their products and grow their business. Because our audience is made up of engineers and technical professionals that come to global spec as a trusted source, content for news, community webinars and all of videos. So they're looking to find products and services through all stages of their purchasing process.

So big educational resource, and I know that this isn't the only is probably the best research report you do all year because it's with true marketing, but not the only one, right? No, no.

So, yeah, we really pride ourselves on providing lots of research to our to our audience of industrial marketers. We also do another kind of long. Do any research report on the pulse of engineering, which will be releasing soon? We also study our industrial marketers, so we release Transdniestria, marketing, digital media use, social media use. And we're kind of always going to popping up surveys of information here and there as the time goes on. We recently did one on supply chain because we know many of our customers are facing supply chain issues and we wanted to know how that's affecting them.

So. So things like that.

Well, I find this this original research data is so important, particularly when working with technical audiences, because there's often a located factor on what marketing is all about and what works. And, you know, the B2B data, what it shows doesn't always trend or many time really doesn't trend when it comes to the technical buyers. So when when I co-founded True Marketing back 13 years ago, that was one of the first things we thought, wow, we really need some data that focuses in this audience.

So absolutely. Yeah, such valuable information.

So can't wait to reveal some of what we found in this year's report because it was a really unique one, obviously, with covid. So tell me a little bit about the focus of this year's research.

Yeah, sure. So if I'm correct, this is our fourth year doing the research for years and we kind of always have the same underlying focus, which is basically just to understand how engineers and technical buyers are finding information and how that helps them make technical decisions. So that's kind of always the current that runs through what we're doing this year. We knew that it was important to ask some questions about kind of reflecting what's happening in our world with the October 19 pandemic.

So we added questions a lot about virtual events. We know that that's something that engineers kind of used to rely on Trajan's for a lot of information. Our research told us that. So, you know, now that they're forced to be consuming this information at home, where are they doing it? And did they find value in it? And then also trending on kind of the stay at home side of things is podcasting. So we asked them about podcasts and if they listen to them and how they find value in them as well.

Well, I can't wait to reveal some of those answers, but for before we do, this year is also significant because we had a record number of surveys completed. I mean, I was blown away. So how many engineers filled out our survey in almost 14 Hungar?

I think we're at thirteen eighty something amazing.

So in a lot of surveys, to get perspective, the sample might be two hundred or three fifty or five hundred. So to have a number this large is just so statistically irrelevant. All of these answers. And and so it was fun to, to see data that's trended year after year after year and now just validated not only with the number of years that we've asked questions, but the number of people this year. Yeah, really cool.

Well, let's dive in and we'll start with virtual events and webinars. So what were some of the key findings in that area?

Well, you know, I so we did find that over half of engineers had attended virtual events. I think it was like 32 percent had. And those it did overwhelmingly found it valuable, 80 percent. So that's what I really found interesting, was that engineers still do say they prefer webinars by a slight margin. And you and I talked about why might that be? And I think one thing that I've learned over the years in researching engineers, if you will, is that they are slow to kind of they're skeptical in nature.

So I was not surprised to see that they were all of a sudden, oh, my God, in virtual events or I knew everything.

Right. It should be just like what it's like in person.

So they were kind of not sure what they preferred.

Yeah. And you and I talked about why might that be? One reason is because virtual events are kind of a new thing. It's funny. Goes back years and years ago we actually used to do virtual events and we kind of kind of petered out a little bit as far as technology has evolved. So it's funny to see that they're back kind of by necessity more than anything else. But but as I was saying, they want or not used to virtual events and to I think it might be hard for some.

To distinguish a large difference between virtual events of Lebanon. Yeah, I feel that's a big one to a lot of confusion. Yeah.

So I think if you are an industrial marketer and you're reading this and you're thinking, you know, should I kind of invest in virtual events or should I stick to webinars, which do I really think? And I think that you would agree that the format doesn't matter as much as what kind of content you're presenting, you know, and that's the end of the all. You should be putting out something relevant and informative. I would definitely look at an event and make sure that it's put together well and easy to navigate.

I don't think engineers care so much about bells and whistles and virtual exhibit halls and stuff. But if the content is there and that, I think that's what matters. Absolutely.

You're spot on. And I recently presented our research to the Austin Marketing American Marketing Association. And it was I it was a small group. So we were able to make it really interactive. And so I asked, hey, you know, who have you participate in a virtual event in twenty twenty and how did it go? And the experience mirrored what we are thinking. So people that went to one that was sort of like a trade show on your screen, you know, where you had like pushy chat windows for sales and just a bunch of downloadable brochures had a really terrible experience.

And then those that had that webinar educational component had a great experience. So it totally aligned with with what you just said.

Yeah, that's good to have some kind of anecdotal evidence to back up what the numbers say. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, how about video?

I know this is I think our was our second year to dive into video as a source of content and information. Yeah, sure.

So I think it's important to kind of, you know, first of all, distinguish I think that a lot of times when we talk about video or when we talk about video in the context, it has this millennial air around it that you don't need to make videos for the millennials or the younger engineers. And, you know, what we're really seeing is that that's not true, that engineers of all ages and all experience levels are consuming video. I found that ninety six percent of engineers watch videos for work in the work that they're doing, which is creeping up.

Last year it was 93 percent.

So, you know, eventually we might I mean. Ninety six percent is pretty darn close. Oh, yeah.

It's virtually it's virtually everyone. Yeah. So considering that that this year our sample size, it's a bit older, does really say that no matter how old an engineer is or how better they are administered, they are they are watching videos specifically about their work.

Yeah. I recently had a guest on this podcast named Brian Fittin in his company produces BTB videos, and we talked a lot about why marketers don't lean into this type of content. Like what? What is so intimidating about it? And I think there's also this perception that, you know, think of that really slick corporate video that's professionally produced and has drones flying in and all of that stuff. And I think marketers think that that's what video has to look like.

But in reality, when you look at look at how many engineers utilize YouTube and you combine that with looking at video, it's not about slick quality. Right. About learning on a topic. And yeah, absolutely.

And I think that it's hard sometimes as a marketer to disengage from what you might like to see in a video. You know, as marketers, we're definitely some people that pay attention to graphics and music and branding and well, obviously, we want our videos to look professional engineers far and away just before it can be a tear down or how to video or demo video. And especially in this day and age, you can kind of work with what you got to get that content out there.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you on LinkedIn, when you share video, a short video snippet versus a flat image or text performs much better. So that alone is a reason to to lean in so you can jack up your engagement on social. That's a great point. Yeah, well, podcasting was a new topic for us to explore this year.

And as a person who just started a podcast in the beginning at twenty twenty, I was so interested to see, OK, do engineers actually use the source or. I know marketers do it because. Because. I've done really well at having more and more subscribers as the months went on, but what engineers say about podcasting? Yeah, so this is I also found this very interesting. Overall, I would say that podcasts are still emerging as a content for engineers.

We found that slightly over half of them. Fifty five percent. Listen to podcast in the context of your work. So we found that about that same amount actually subscribed to shows while 40 percent they might listen, but they don't have subscriptions. And we found that the average engineer is listening to what equates to about one episode per week, because you figure out an episode is 15 to 30 minutes long. And what they're showing us is that's about what they listen to per week.

Yeah. So what's your prediction? Do you think this number will change next year? I think so.

I think it will go up. We definitely saw this with video when we first started years ago asking about video and think that engineers were watching videos, but maybe not as much in the context of their work. And I think this is what we're seeing here. Two podcasts are slowly becoming more ubiquitous in our general lives. So it's only a matter of time before engineers in larger amounts start to turn to those for work as well.

And of course, you're seeing a proliferation of options of podcasts shows. So maybe that that is part of the lag, too, is the content just wasn't being produced and perhaps it will be this year. So, yeah, yeah.

It's not too late to get it and get it on the podcast for sure.

Well, one of the more I guess, surprising or I dare I say maybe even controversial topics is around social media.

And this is always so interesting to me.

Once again, just kind of like underscores the difference in marketers and engineers. But I think that something that we have said for a while is that engineers are on social they're consuming social media, but it is not where they go to get valuable technical information. And that makes a lot of sense. Right. If you're if you're trying to figure out where a source of heart or if you're trying to learn more about how a certain part works.

Facebook is maybe not, you know, home, but we do see an interesting shift in.

We found almost half of the engineers found professional community networks valuable. And that's something that we haven't really seen a big. Interesting in the past, but I think this year, with not being able to travel and not being able to kind of gather for those networking events, the online version of those networks has become a lot more important.

And I knew that every year we get the question, what is a professional network? What do you mean by that? And and so to qualify and we've even I know in our questions given examples, so associations or really any type of like minded groups. So there's a site called Stack Overflow and there's Corra. So there's community sourced places where people are sharing code or sharing technical information. And those are the types of professional networks that we see engineers gravitating towards.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So out of the more popular social channels, of course the number one was LinkedIn and has been LinkedIn for many years.

So how are engineers utilizing LinkedIn? That is a great question. I think they're spending the majority of their time on LinkedIn and kind of searching for contacts and relevant people to to connect with whether or not the other engineers or people to to source products and information from they are consuming content most often on LinkedIn. So you might have the best luck kind of gaining followers on LinkedIn as opposed to Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. So if you I know that we have a lot of success reaching out to people through LinkedIn and through our pages on LinkedIn.

So I would definitely if you're trying to whittle down where to place your efforts, LinkedIn is certainly a place that you should look. However, I think that while we see that, you know only. You know, only five percent of people find Facebook very valuable. A lot of engineers find it somewhat. So they might still find that interesting video snippets and stuff like that on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram.

Yeah, well, with true marketing clients, we've found the most success when it comes to Facebook, utilizing that to show your company culture, using it as a recruiting forum and then with LinkedIn trends are something that tends to be popular. So with both advertising placements and just regular post talking about industry trends, how to solve a particular problem. But like you said, they're not going there to source apart. So I think that example stuck with me. So it's really more about high level education, you know, what's happening in the industry and definitely connect with people as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think it's important. You know, what we kind of always say is that even if an engineer is not going to Facebook to to solve a problem for their work, we probably are on to Facebook on their leisure time. Right. So you can expose yourself to them even when they're not expressive, looking for you. You will gain brand awareness through that. Yeah, very good.

Well, just to let you know and our listeners know in the month of March, I'm running LinkedIn mini series. So every single episode is going to be on LinkedIn and I'm excited. I've recorded some of the interviews and some are upcoming, but will be examining it from experts in advertising on LinkedIn, selling Illington, creating content for Arlington. And then we'll have some case studies of industrial marketers and what they're finding success at on LinkedIn.

So that's also excited for that. Yeah, yeah.

So we'll be releasing two a week in March. So it's pretty aggressive.

I don't want to give up all the secrets now, but there's some really cool ideas and innovative things people are doing. So anyway, little plug for that and.

Well, speaking of innovation, what are the things that marketers have done? It's somewhat innovative is retargeting. So creating personalized ads. Right, based on someone's browsing history. And we decided to add this to our research. But of course, we had to kind of explain to an engineer what it is because they don't they don't have the word retargeting. So how did that go?

Yeah, so I was fascinated by the results in this question. I think as a marketer, retargeting is something that we are you see, when we recognize if I see an advertisement and I know the events that website, I can understand why I was served up. But engineers are pretty split on how they feel about it. Honestly, the top response at 30 percent was that they're creeped out by it and they believe that a vendor is following them around the Internet.

Another twenty seven percent claim of no real notice about advertising. And so they're not freaked out because they're just not engaging. But then you do have twenty six percent, but a claim that it does heightened awareness of the product and makes them kind of recall. Oh yeah, I remember that. I looked at that and then another 18 percent say that it serves as a reminder to to go back and either evaluate or purchase the product and then they claim that they would revisit the page.

You know how?

Well, I guess the answer is be cautious. Marketers, be cautious. And you don't look at the data.

Right, because every audience is a little bit different. Sure. Yeah. And I think that this would be a really good slide. Or if you have the report to share that page of the report with your sales team, because I think that sometimes they can be a little bit too overeager to kind of reveal the kind of tracking that's been going on around. So you kind of tread lightly when kind of calling out that you are aware of their search.

Exactly.

Well, I knew we also had some questions on the sales process, which we do every year, because we know it's always interesting to see how long engineers search online and try to find their own answers before they're willing to engage with sales. And that number is consistently trended 50 percent or better. And it keeps going up and up and up. And certainly some age differences in this question, too. Yeah, yeah. So I would say that it might be easy to think that the pandemic has kind of made people go online for their buying process, but that's really always been the trend.

So it may have pushed it a little bit, but it's not the sole reason here. Engineers have moved online to complete much of the buying process, and they have for a while now, we saw sixty two percent of respondents complete more than half of the buying process online before they reach out to anyone. And we see we do see that there are differences in age, but it may not be what you think. So engineers that are forty five and under do spend even more time online.

Seventy percent of those people complete more than half the buying process online. I know there's a lot of numbers that can be hard to follow along, but engineers were required under spending the most time online before reaching out to someone. But still, when we look at, for example, engineers over sixty five there, they're also spending at least 50 percent of the journey online. So it's not it's not as egregious in the differences as you might think. Yep.

Yep. Good. And that's just really kind of the way it is.

I was speaking with an engineer last week who shared that. Oh yeah.

I don't want to talk to anyone I know. Don't call me. I don't want to talk to anyone. And so I said, OK. I said, well, let me tell you.

We also ask when an engineer is ready to talk to sales, how do they what form do they want to communicate in?

Sure.

And overwhelmingly, it was this email we found 70 percent would prefer to contact someone. The email we sent. Twenty nine percent would prefer a phone call. And then, you know, not very many people were in favor of in-person meetings for obvious reasons. We also saw I know we get a lot of questions about online chat show, and it's the preferred method for only five percent of engineers. It doesn't mean they're not using it to maybe ask questions or ask for a phone number, ask for an email address.

So I wouldn't say that online chat is not utilized. It's just maybe not what you would think of as your preferred method to really dive into things.

Yeah. And, you know, really dive into things. I think that's a good way to say it with this same engineer.

I said, well, hey, what about chat and names was like chat. No. And and I said, OK, well, why? You know, because I feel like we use it so much and B2C situations that they're kind of beating us into submission. Right. We're just going to be so used to it. And he made a good point that no, often this is a highly technical solution. I'm going to need a lot of information, some resources that I can go link to reference whatever.

And it's way easier to do via email. You can go into a little bit more detail. You can provide links, provide documents. But I still don't have to talk to anybody that I was trying to push something on me. So it was interesting to hear from his perspective why email is so valued.

And, you know, I think a lot of disappointment on the marketers part because we're trying to how can we push people further in the funnel? How can we better qualify these leads for sales?

So I get why chat is favored, but because most of these engineers just aren't ready when it comes to at least seeking a technical solution. Sure, absolutely. Yeah. Maybe it's better customer service or other things. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Well, I guess taking a step back and reflecting on this year's report previous years, like you said, we've done this for four years now. So what are some of the things that you've found consistent year after year? Yeah, and I think I do think it's a little bit comforting to look at this data and see that despite the year we had in 2020 and where things are going, it's still uncertain this year. Some things don't change when we talk about overall, engineers are hungry for content.

They find a lot of different types of content very valuable, such as white papers and CAD drawings. They are wanting to download white papers and all sorts of information as much as possible. The rise in video is steady and expected for us, so I would expect that to continue. And also something that we haven't really talked about today is newsletters among engineers engage a lot with the newsletters. They find the content in those newsletters valuable. They usually subscribe to to multiple newsletters.

And we have a good percentage of engineers that say that. I read all the newsletters that they get, and then we also have a large percentage that kind of stand for interesting subject lines, interesting article titled and kind of go from there.

I'm really glad you brought up newsletters because, you know, while chat and podcasting are like shiny new objects that marketers like to innovate towards shiny new objects, but that that is tried and true and continues to be so popular. So and keep it up on your newsletters and consider industry newsletters. I know their sponsorship opportunities with industry publications and even the global spec. You guys offer that as well. I believe we have over 80 newsletters at this point. Now I know.

I know. And they're all a whole range of topics. So regardless of what industry right now, we've got to get subscriber base somewhere. Yeah.

So if anybody knows whether or not any newsletters are working, it's huge.

And obviously with that many it's working maybe and maybe it kind of goes back to kind of engaging on their own terms. Right. Any newsletter can show up in your inbox. And when you have a second, you can take a look at it. You don't have to you know, while they do find webinars, videos and different things like that, valuable, those are.

Kind of take up more than a brain power, right, and more of their engagement where a newsletter is is easy for them to click on when they have a chance.

Yeah, and I always like to look at your newsletters as a way to amplify those pieces of content that are already created.

So that webinar on demand and the last three podcasts that somebody used or the new video or whatever it is, that's the vehicle to promote that content. And then it becomes an easier thing to produce every month or every quarter with these existing content assets.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Well, so I know we talked about a lot of the new questions that were in research this year. Were there any other big changes that surprised you or pretty much steady as you go? I think that I think the new questions were really interesting to look at. When you look at some of our perennial questions. I did notice that white papers jumped up kind of in the list of most valuable pieces of content. So that's interesting to know and it's kind of encouraging.

I know that we spend a lot of time making white papers and we encourage our audience of industrial marketers. That's a big piece of their kind of bread and butter content marketing. So that's working. Engineers find them very valuable. And I also thought it was interesting, along with the community networks of professional networks, we saw a little bit of a jump in trade publications, which I found very interesting because for years they were kind of lagging in the middle of what kind of engineers found valuable.

And I think this year, without being able to travel to a trade show there, maybe looking at those publications to to get some of that same information. Yeah. To see, you know, depending on what happens this year, if that if those publications continue to be seen as valuable or if they're able to find information in other places. Yeah, yeah.

I know you and I are so close to this research.

And so sometimes we'll just change things slightly like add one more response area or take one away.

And I and I just remembered one that we added, which was on video tutorials as a content source and that ended up being one of the high valued sources.

So it wasn't I think it was number five or maybe number six, but it was up there in that top echelon. So didn't want to forget that.

I know that's true. And I think we usually talk about video separately from other types of content. So it's interesting to see kind of where it fits in with the rest of the things. Yeah.

So as we look forward to our next research, so which should release 20 20 to where do you think we should focus, we think we should add or change. Have any ideas yet. That's a great question.

I think I'm always so interested in kind of similar networks but kind of forums and where engineers, especially now are connecting with each other. And something that we know at global spek is that engineers find their colleagues and their their community to be great sources of information. And that's how a lot of information on products spreads is the word of mouth. So I'm so curious to know maybe now that. Some engineers are still working independently and they're not in the office.

How are they getting that information or is it something that is a need for them?

I love that. And maybe we even dare have a fill in the blank where they tell us their favorite community network so that we have some actual, you know, other examples for people. Yeah, I would also be interested to dig in and in and I guess it depends on what happens this year. But I know sales organizations are really struggling with what the future should look like. Are people going to want to have in-person sales meetings or are people going to be more working from home even after everyone has their vaccination?

And so what is sales look like in the future? And if it is more virtual, what are people's preferences, having the cameras on or off, you know, duration ways to engage. So that might be another one to dig into a little bit as well. It will be interesting to see, you know, all the things that we were forced to give it to in twenty twenty, you know, which of those things will prove to be valuable and preferred and which of those things are we kind of year to year, right.

Yeah, right. Exactly. Oh, well, we invite those of you listening and watching.

We invite you to tell us what your ideas on what we should study next year. So if they want to send ideas to you, Jen, how can they get a hold of you?

Yeah, absolutely. So I am on LinkedIn. You can search Jansport Grand Global SPAC and you'll find me. You can also contact us on the Global Spek website, global special com or global dot com slash advertising. We'll get to me. And you can also comment on our blog, which is the marketing team and its marketing maven, Duckburg Wilsbach dot com. So there's tons of good resources there. And, you know, just like with the survey, any kind of industrial marketing questions, ideas that you have that we could dive into, I'm all ears.

And if the company is looking to conduct their own research study, is that a service that global spec offers?

Yes, we do. We do have a survey product. So you could look into it right after our webinar.

Someone asked me that and I've been meaning to ask you. So sweet spot there. I'm glad you said yes because the weird but really. Oh, good.

Well, and then also, of course, you can those you can also reach me on LinkedIn, but Jen is not that easy to find and LinkedIn. So I want to spell this out.

So she's GNN and then Corcoran is spelled SEO are seriatim and I look at my notes because I constantly try to put an H in there somewhere and.

Oh yes, very cool. Oh thank you so much for being on the show today.

Do you have any just last one piece of parting advice for marketers in twenty twenty one. Yeah, I think we spent all of last year being agile and being flexible and everything, and I think maybe some people are a little shell shocked about that. And we're going into twenty, twenty one and we still don't know what the end of the year might look for us, even though, you know, I think we're starting to see a lot of them.

The tunnel. I think a lot of people are starting to see budgets come back and move and come back. And I would just kind of advise people, while you're being optimistic, make sure you kind of have that backup plan in your in your back pocket. And if we learned anything, it's it's how to be flexible. So, you know, keep that skill going into twenty, twenty one and twenty two and be, you know, nothing is set in stone.

Perfect. I couldn't agree more, but thank you so much and thanks.

Thanks for joining me today on content marketing engineered for show notes including links to resources visit true marketing dotcom slash podcast. Wow. There you can subscribe to our blog Inari newsletter in order a copy of my book, Content Marketing Engineers. Also, I would love your reviews on this podcast. So please, when you get a chance, subscribe and leave me your review on your favorite podcast subscription platform. Thanks and have a great day.