Take an inside peek into the rebranding process used to give life and focus to a multi-company acquisition.
Mergers and acquisitions are an effective way to quickly achieve economies of scale, improve operational efficiency and expand into new market segments. They are a fast-track to diversification through organic growth, helping mitigate risk. But from a marketing perspective, there are several key considerations to evaluate before moving forward with a full-scale rebranding launch.
On this episode you'll hear details of a rebrand initiative which was triggered by a business acquisition from three unique perspectives: Genuen CEO, Jeff Gray; Genuen SVP of Business Development ,Todd VanGilder; and TREW Marketing President, Lee Chapman.
We cover everything from internal alignment, company naming and brand messaging development, and the external brand launch. You'll hear what the Genuen team enjoyed most about the process, and what surprised them along the way. If you are considering a rebranding effort or have one underway, there is a ton of insightful information on this episode to help with your own plans.
The following transcript was created by an AI Bot which has yet to learn slang words and decipher Wendy's Texas accent. While it is no substitute for watching/listening to the episode, transcripts are handy for a quick scan. Enjoy!
Narrator: Welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered, your source for building trust and generating demand with technical content. Here is your host, Wendy Covey.
Wendy: Hi and welcome to Content Marketing, Engineere. On each episode, I'll break down an industry trend, challenge, or best practice in reaching technical audiences. You'll meet colleagues, friends, and clients of mine who will stop by to share their stories. I hope you'll leave each episode feeling inspired and ready to take action. Before we jump in, I'd like to give a shout out to my agency, TREW Marketing. TREW is a full service agency located in beautiful Austin, Texas, serving highly technical companies.
For more information, visit our site. And now on with our podcast.
Hey, everyone. Today, our focus is on helping technical marketers and executives learn about the rebranding process after a merger or an acquisition. Do you change your name? How about your new message as a combined entity? What do you need a plan? And how far out do you need to start your planning in advance of relaunching? We're going to unpack all of these and more on today's episode.
Joining us today is Jeff Gray, CEO of Genuen Todd VanGilder, senior vice president of Business Development of Genuen and Lee Chapman, president of TREW Marketing. This is the first time we've done a panel discussion on Content Marketing, Engineered. So I'm really excited, thanks to you all for being here today.
Todd: Glad to be here.
Wendy: All right, well, before we get started, I think it would be helpful to just learn a little bit about each of our panelists and what their role was with this rebranding initiative. So, Jeff, we'll start with you.
Jeff: So, Jeff Gray, as you mentioned, CEO of Genuen, my role during the rebranding was I was one of the team members as part of our team working with Lee and the team at TREW. And my role was more a kind of set the tone and kind of the underlying expectations from kind of a higher level perspective. And the team kind of rallied around that vision for lack of a better word. And so and then I also contributed as we went along, you know, in the process.
So that's really my role in that process. So.
Wendy: All right, Todd?
Todd: Oh, I'm next, OK. Yes, as you mentioned, Todd Van Gilden, the senior vice president of business development for Genuen. My role was just to do whatever Jeff told me to do. You know, I wanted to make sure it was something I believed in and could get behind and sell right. At the end of the day, me and my team have to to sell the brand and sell the products. So I just wanted to make sure it was something I could get behind.
Wendy: Great, and then Lee.
Lee: Hi, Lee Chapman, president of TREW Marketing, so my role was both facilitator and strategist in this whole rebranding process, which was super exciting for me because I'd worked with WTI for nearly a decade. I'd worked with the CerTech team before. So it was two companies that I knew. And so it was just an exciting opportunity to kind of see these two teams come together and work through this whole process. You know, with acquisitions, there can be feelings and emotions and reactions to change.
And these teams are so collaborative, so it was just fantastic to work pretty much for a year straight on how to, you mentioned timing on like how to set this up, how to name them, position them, and finally, just a couple of months ago, launch them. So.
Wendy: Great, well Lee since you work with with some of the companies individually, perhaps you could just give us a little bit more background, set the stage for this all coming together.
Lee: Great, yes, so in early 2020, CertTech acquired WTI. And both companies knew each other very well. Both partners with large companies like National Instruments, Keysight, they both have these distinctive offerings, but also complementary services and products. So this acquisition was really a great opportunity for them to expand their offerings into applications and industries, including automotive, aerospace, hardware in the loop, national security. But we started off with, what about a name?
Because there were some different levels of brand recognition of both names. There were some challenges to overcome and then adding a layer onto that, there were some additional acquisitions planned. So neither name was really going to fit the bill and also set them up for this future growth that they were going to have. So that led us into this brand discovery project to help figure out their go forward plan that would meet the need and also set them up for this future growth.
Wendy: So, Jeff, I'm curious is, you know, is the business leader here, you go into this first acquisition, was changing your company name even on your radar at the time?
Jeff: You know, quite honestly, it wasn't and and I shouldn't, you know, in hindsight and looking back, I shouldn't have been surprised the more I think about it. But there are so many things going through your mind and, you know, not the least of which was the the COVID pandemic, which occurred right at the same time. So that a few other things on my mind as we're rolling into this. You know, it occurred to us fairly early on and it really became clear to me and actually in talking with Todd, probably was the first time the light bulb came on for me.
That was that the CertTech name had served us well for a couple of decades. It just didn't fully convey the combined offering that we now have. And there wasn't any you know, when you start trying to cluj names together and concatenate them, it gets really unattractive and all those things. And so it became clear fairly quickly that we needed to find a new brand and a new name. And so that was kind of the genesis of how we got here.
And I'll give props to Lee because she was really helpful in kind of helping us think through that whole process and it wasn't just Lee, but the whole team there. TREW. Really did a great job helping us think through that process.
Wendy: Yeah, well, it's it's a big decision. So, Todd, what about that name? It's had some issues, too.
Todd: Well, I mean, we're sawing WTI, but in the beginning it was Wineman Technology, which was the then CEO and majority owners last name. And we condensed it to WTI. And I remember people asking, well, what's you know, because we were WTI, a certain group in the beginning there, you know, what's WTI stand for? Nothing, I guess, because we didn't want to say it was for Wineman. Right. Because we were getting away from that.
So, you know, on in the beginning, I thought we would just merge the two names. And Jeff was the one that kind of said, now let's just start all over, you know, about that.
Wendy: And I think WTI, you know, here in Texas, that has some meaning to and I I realize it through a Google search. I think we you were probably quick to point it out to the team. What does it stand for?
Lee: I think it's the West Texas index or something, which is some oil commodity index, so that was part of the SEO impact of why WTI wouldn't work. And the the Wineman guys were wanting to get into the front half of the alphabet to they didn't like coming up, as people are scrolling through looking at solutions partners W's at the end of the alphabet. So that was that was part of our discussion.
Todd: I remember during the naming process, I wanted an A. So we'd be at the top of the list because I started being at the bottom and I wanted a V in the middle somewhere so I actually went on the Internet to find names with an A at the beginning and a V in the middle because of the design V, I thought that'd be cool.
Wendy: Oh, here we go for a while. An engineer on name finders, engineer, salesperson, technical salesperson. Nothing could go wrong there. Jeff, I'm curious. So I want to get into the naming process. But before we do, tell me about some of the messaging considerations you went into. So we mentioned this new combined capabilities of the two entities and also the idea of more acquisitions on the way. So, you know, how did you come up with that messaging and how did that play into your naming brainstorm?
Jeff: So I think the easiest way to describe that is it was a multi month process that we were guided through with lead and help from others, and it was really a collaborative and collaborative effort between Todd, Matt, Matt Eurich, the former president of WTI now our chief operating officer and the team here at what was legacy CerTech. And, you know, a lot of it was around, now that we're together, now that we have these combined capabilities, what is the message?
What is what is the foundation that we're going forward with and and what kind of a brand recognition, how do we want to come to market as this new combined entity? And so a lot of great professional guidance, a lot of, you know, sometimes spirited discussions. You know, just kind of working through the whole, is it an acquisition? Is that a merger, or is it you know, what's the how do we want to talk about this and what's the right way to message?
Because we have been and remain super excited about what we can now offer. And we've already seen in just the year we've been together, tremendous opportunities come together because we have the combined capabilities and we're able to go to a customer and say we've always been doing this for you. Now we can do this and this, and they're embracing that. And really, I think the new brand just helps to even reinforce that, because now it's not WTI a CertTech compan, we are all Genuen.
The other benefit, I would say, or the the thing that we've seen is from an internal perspective and and the opportunity for our people in the company because the company is all about the people. And if anyone ever says otherwise, they're wrong. It's always about the people. And, you know, they are really taking to heart and being part of this process. And it's just really exciting to see. So. I don't know if I answered your question or you did, you absolutely did.
Wendy: And I'm going to come back to the people part in just a moment. But before we do, Lee, why don't you walk us through what this process look like, you know, coming up with a new name just for those marketers out here saying, where do you even start?
Lee: Right, and so the naming piece in and of itself was probably a four week process, and there were a team of about five of us working on the name and a lot of other people in the background. So we started off just kind of coming to the table with what are some naming parameters that we have. Right. So we already talked about we wanted a name that started at the beginning of the alphabet and we wanted something broad that we could define what that name means.
So we didn't want it to be too descriptive because that would be limiting. So we kind of had all these naming requirements that we identified first, and that kind of helped narrow us down to some rules, I guess, if you will, for what these names should be. Everybody kind of went off individually. I think we all did Google searches. We talked to our family. We talked to our neighbors, Jeff and Todd and team pulled in ideas from coworkers.
And we kind of all collectively brought those back and pitched them. And that was what was one of the things that's so great about working with this team again was just the collaboration. As Jeff mentioned, everybody was so open, there were no dumb ideas or dumb names. Everybody was really open to embracing these different names. And then it came down to I think we had about 50 names at one point. And kind of culled that down eventually to about 10.
And from there, we did a US Patent and Trademark Office search just to make sure that none of those names were in use by other companies in their space. And then we also had an IP attorney work on getting names on the final two and kind of came back with one that was strong and open. It's not just the name, but it's also, is the trademark available and also is the domain available, which is one of the most tricky components to naming.
We had a lot of great names we loved and as we search, just like, oh, that there's not a dotcom open for that. So it really gets into a little bit of art and a little bit of science to figure out that. Right. Blend of the name and then the URL to go with it.
Todd: Yeah. The other thing that we had to think about, which is surprising often it came up, is what does that word mean in another language and make sure that we did well, was that automobile that came out that meant not dependable or something in Spanish? I think we didn't want we didn't want an issue like that.
Jeff: Yeah. The classic is the Chevy Nova, which in Spanish means no go.
You don't want that.
Wendy: No, no. Well, Todd, as you're looking at this list of names, did you know right away that Genuen was that name or did you have another dog in the hunt?
Todd: Well, honestly, we we came up with Ascentia I think we were going to go with. We had all kind of decided on that one. As matter of fact, I was looking at the the Google Drive that we share with TREW and the folders actually still call it Ascentia. So we were all excited about that. And when that didn't go through, I think I knew for me personally, it took the wind out of my sails a little bit, like, oh, I thought we were past this because it's a lot of work to come up with the name and when Genuen came out there, I think Bob got it.
And and when I heard it, I didn't love it, but I did like it. And that's where I was in this journey. I did not dislike it. And I think we're all kind of like that. But I was just telling my team the other day. I'm just so happy with the name now. I'm when I see the logo and the way we represent it and just it's just growing on me. It's like Nike. I mean, what was that when it first came out?
And now it's just everywhere. And I just, the colors and ,I couldn't be happier.
Wendy: Good, good. Well, at the at the end of this episode, we'll have a swag show up the brand. Well, Jeff, you had mentioned your internal teams and needing to to rally everyone, get them excited. And I assume a lot of that needed to be done before the external launch. So tell me what you did to educate and bring everybody on board.
Jeff: So fairly early on and just real quickly, I was kind of was like Todd.
I didn't not like it, but I didn't immediately love it and I fell in love with it. We worked with Sarah from TREW and we got the logo right. And it just all of a sudden it clicked for me. And it was one of those things. It was like I just knew. And anyway, as soon as we had the logo and we were set, the IP attorneys have done their work and we were clear.
We have the domain. I did what was rare in COVID times and I got on an airplane and I flew up to Michigan and we did a couple of live events where brought our employees into the office and we introduced it to them. So we did a kind of a soft introduction of, hey, we're going in this direction. And that would have been, gosh, back in November time frame. So we introduced it to everyone.
It kind of got them excited and thinking about it. And then we've had some events along the way where we've kept everyone informed, but really it kind of came together just ahead of the external launch. Morgan from TREW, and myself led an internal brand training and that was outstanding. And I can't tell you how many people came to me after that and were just super excited. And Morgan did an outstanding job. And again, I felt like she really did a great job of helping educate our team about what the new brand is and what it means and how we talk about it. And it really was kind of getting, you know, that next big step, because shortly thereafter we did the formal external launch.
And, you know, it's funny now you walk around the office and everyone's wearing shirts and hats and, you know, it's just it's really taken root. But, you know, the internal brand training was a big key part of that. And all the the brand artifacts and collateral that go into the slide decks and the letterheads and, you know, all the things, the guidance on how to use the colors. And we've even immediately started branding our systems as they get shipped out to our customers.
They're now going out with Genuen branding on them. And it's just beautiful. So very exciting.
Wendy: A lot of different elements to cover when you change your company name. Sure.
Jeff: Yeah. And and many of them we were aware of because we had good guidance and trying to help think through some of that. Some of this stuff has caught us by surprise. But I think that's just just the nature of it.
Todd: And still is catching us by surprise in some fashion.
Wendy: What's an example of that?
Todd: Well, I mean, one of the things that's taken a lot of time right now is all the buyers I have to deal with that want new NDAs and new, you know, just to be able to issue a appeal. There's all kinds of documentation that has to be redone and rethought. And I had no idea what that was going to be. Such a heavy lift.
Wendy: Interesting.
Jeff: Another example is our friends at the IRS. God bless them. We all love them. But getting the name changed formally within the federal government's systems is a little more challenging than it might appear on the surface. And the time constants involved when you're used to running a lean and mean company, where you make decisions and you do stuff, you kind of run into some processes that aren't quite as quick as you're accustomed to, that is kind of the nicest way I could say that.
So, you know, but we got through all that and we're kind of on the other side.
Wendy: So Lee do you have anything else to add about the internal training and thinking through all of the different branded elements as you went through this process?
Lee: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that's the benefit of the internal training, and Jeff and Todd and the leadership team really saw this, is you know, you are your brand, right? Your whole team, your staff, anyone who interacts with customers in any way or touches the website or writes your content, they are a brand ambassador. So they really are the most important audience to get that brand story and message clear with before you go externally. I think everybody gets really excited about the big external launch, but it's really important to kind of stop and take a pause and get centered and aligned internally on what that is so that everybody feels a part of it, too, and is really excited and engaged.
Like Jeff said, that really kind of caught on and now everybody's excited to wear the brand and they feel comfortable telling the brand story in their own words. They know what those kind of key points are and then they can carry that forward.
Todd: I think one of the things that helped us internally, too, is Jeff had already made the decision that we were going to run the company based on EOS, the entrepreneur operating system in a part of that was reading the traction books and some of the things, I'm giving shameless plug here, but we were already thinking about at the same time we were rebranded, we were thinking about our message and our core values and vision statements and all that kind of stuff and how important it was to get the whole company behind it.
So the timing was really good with the branding and naming change and where we were at EOS, I felt for me personally.
Wendy: Yeah, yeah. And we're an EOS house too, so I'll shamelessly plug it with you. Yeah, well with Todd speaking and sharing that message. Now that you have launched the brand externally, how are customers responding? What is their initial reaction? Was that were those difficult conversations to have?
Todd: I haven't had any difficult conversations other than getting set up in people's systems, sometimes Zoom conversations with what they want, but no, I think it's been very, very positive. I think a lot of people, you know, on the WTI side of the house, whenever you're acquired by somebody and it's out there that you've been acquired, you know, your customers can get a little concerned, are you going away, what's happening and all that kind of stuff.
And I think, you know, when we came together under one name and came out with Genuen, it made them all relax a little bit. A lot of them. I think that they really are together. They really are a team. And WTI is not going anywhere and CertTech, not going anywhere. They're together as Genuen. So it was a good message. I was happy about it.
Wendy: Yes. So in a way, it sounds like the rebrand gave you an opportunity to interact with customers, an excuse to go in and reinforce your value proposition and just maybe hunt around for new opportunities.
Todd: Oh, you know, just the name change and the branding and all that is a reason for a touch point with a customer. And any time you can have a reason to start a conversation, that can lead to an opportunity. But in addition to that, in our particular case, because it was also companies coming together, it was also another reason to tell them about our extended capabilities. Now, you know, we did that initially, but it was another reason to bring it up again.
And, you know, here's where we can help you as this new brand of Genuen thing. So it was it was very good.
Wendy: Well, I know one of the big deliverables of your rebrand when we think about external launches was the website. And you guys have a sizable website, lots of content on it. And I know that was also a merge of two different companies. So anyone want to come in on what that process was like or some of the things you like about your new website?
Todd: Sure, I'll go. You know, the website redesign, I think that's one of the things that we all knew when we decided to rebrand would be a heavy lift. Yeah, it was heavier than I thought. There were lots of meetings with lots of people, which makes for lots more meetings because you got lots of opinions and longer conversations and stuff. But we wanted to get everybody's input. And TREW did a great job of segmenting who was in each meeting about what subject and pillar page and stuff like that.
But a lot of effort involved there for sure. And let's live in our launch. But we're not done. There's still more work. So it's a big effort.
Wendy: Websites are never completely done. They should be a living being. Right.
Todd: But I love our coloring and I love the way it looks and it's clean and I'm very excited. Certainly the Genuen website is better than the WTI or CertTech was, in my opinion.
Jeff: Substantially better, I'd say, you know, from my perspective, we were we were facing essentially a website redesign, whether we rebranded or not, because we had like a CerTech Web site and the WTI Web site, and we were going to have to bring that material together some way. So actually, the rebrand, I don't know that there was a lot of incremental effort specifically related to the rebrand other than reskinning a lot of the content in the new brand.
But all that other work had to be done anyway. And so bringing it to life in a new color scheme with new logos. And we were going to have to do that. So I was pleased, and it was more effort than I anticipated. But but on the backside, looking back, I'm not sure why I thought it would be less.
Wendy: Because you don't know what you don't know.
Jeff: But we have and particularly WTI and working with TREW through the last decade had done a really great job of content creation and and building a Web presence and a lead generation that frankly we had not invested in that to that level or even close. So, you know, we knew there was a big job there any way we were going to do this. And so I couldn't be happier with how it's come together. And I know we have some more initiatives in this year and beyond on how we're going to continue to improve and expand on the content.
But I feel like we we got a really good first cut ready to go and hit the target. And I don't know what kind of gymnastics or acrobatics were happening behind the scenes that have to happen at TREW you guys sure made it look like this is just what we do. We get it done. So hats off to you for that.
Wendy: Thank you, Lee. The head gymnast.
Lee: Well, that's probably Erin, but and Sara behind the scenes. But tons of content. I mean, this is definitely our biggest website to date that we've ever taken on. Had the most new content generated for it. Genuen really invested the time and energy and effort to do it right. A lot of companies don't do that. And then they end up with kind of a website they're never truly happy with. And so I think this team really bought into this that it is going to be a lot of effort up front.
But we're taking the time to rename our company. And you only get one opportunity to do that. And it behooves us to do that correctly. And so hats off to them for making that that choice. And then there were hundreds of pieces of existing content that needed to be rebranded. And templatized blog posts, I mean, video content that was created, it was really a full court press. So I'm just absolutely thrilled with the results.
And already in the first month since the launch, we've had a forty two percent increase in Web sessions month over month. And that's really kind of extraordinary because as anyone knows, when you push a new website live, it takes a while for Google to index all your pages for you to show up in search and you usually take a dip in your Web sessions in the first six months. We haven't seen that yet. So we've seen it actually increase.
So I'm really excited about what the future holds as we continue to release new content and blog posts and continue this content investment that the team has to really see this increase in Web sessions, new contacts and lead generation to help kind of fuel this new business.
Todd: Well, while we're talking about the website, I'd like to put out a shameless teaser for the next thing that will unveil on our website.
I am going to tell you what it is Genuen will be offering for the first time ever and in June test as a service. And so you're going to see that presence on our website. You're going to be able to come to us now to to do the testing for you if you'd like. So we're excited about that adventure.
Wendy: Cool. Well, way to get that in.
Todd: I'm in sales, what can I say?
Wendy: I really like the video on your homepage that just explains the merger, everything coming together in one brand. I thought that was a nice way to articulate that, but not nearly as exciting as your new service offerings.
Well, Lee, what does success look like? You mentioned Web growth, and that was unexpected because it's so early on pushing the new website live. But just in general, how do you measure the success of a rebrand?
Lee: Yeah, that's a great question. Initially, it's qualitative feedback. We talked about how our customers are responding. How is your team responding? What is your board of directors saying? So you look at that, and I think initially we got very favorable feedback on the name and the launch web sessions are definitely things that we look at, new contacts and leads. And then also the we did a news release announcing this new launch and there were over one hundred postings led to one piece of editorial content in the Kansas City Business Journal.
The customer email that Todd mentioned that went out to their customer base had a 20 percent open rate. It had a three percent click rate, which is outstanding above industry standard benchmarks. And so those are kind of the quantitative measures that we look at. And so we've already had some great results just in the last month. And as we kind of go forward, we'll look at things like social media, follower growth, engagement to post there. And again, like I mentioned, new contacts and obviously these.
Wendy: And I think you have to look at how often the CEO of the company wears a Genuen shirt or hat. So so far, you know, today you're at 100 percent.
Todd: I was going to say the same thing. I think the other measurement of its success is the fact that we're sitting here next to you on the show talking about how much we like it as the CEO.
Wendy: Absolutely. I think that is there is there is an emotional connection to that brand and pride in who you work for. And it's not just some, you know, visual thing that's up on your website or in your hat.
Jeff: So I think it is so much more than that. And I'm glad you said that because, you know, I spent 20 years of my life as CertTech and that that was my professional identity was. And I know, Todd, you've been a WTI for a long time before coming together.
And, you know, a lot of people had poured a lot of their life into this. And so, you know, it's something you really take to heart when you're going into this. And I feel like the team collectively has just done an outstanding job of bringing this to life in a way that is going to help us help our customers better. So that's really the end goal at the end of the day.
Todd: And everybody in the company has definitely gotten behind it and falled in love with it. I think one of our guys, Dan Barber, I think was his name. I want to put it another shameless plug. I think he came up with something like there's no "I" in Genuen only "u."
It's all about you. It's all about you. Yes, it's great.
Wendy: Well, as we as we wrap up here, I thought it would be interesting to hear some parting advice spoken from each of your respective roles. So starting with you, Jeff, as the executive, you know, the CEO of the company, if there's other CEOs listening that are contemplating a rebrand as part of the acquisition, what advice do you have for them?
Jeff: Oh, goodness. Well, a couple of things that come to mind and know I won't take too much time here, but you know, one and I mentioned this a couple of times, don't underestimate the effort because it is a substantial effort and not just from a time and attention, but it's an emotional process as well. So be prepared and commit to seeing it through. And I think the other thing is to to be stay open and listen to the professionals that you bring on to help guide you through it, because there's tremendous knowledge and value and we're really good at what we do, but we don't do what you do.
And so we're incredibly thankful to have guidance. And, you know, I would argue we're as good or better as anyone in the world that does what we do and probably better than most. But and I think having a team of similar skill matching up with us to accomplish a task like this. So I would definitely encourage seeking help and support from a capable organization as part of that process.
Todd: Could you give the audience any references to any companies that might have those capabilities?
Jeff: It might be sponsoring this podcast.
Wendy: There might. Might be. All right. So so, Todd, from your perspective as sales leadership in the organization, what is your advice to other sales leaders?
Todd: Well, the first thing I would say, and in all seriousness is don't do it alone. Hire somebody that knows what they're doing, that that's their day job, right? It's it's a big and daunting task. And you can't do it by yourself, in my opinion.
Wendy: No, you just said you have an app for this!
Todd: Nope, no app right now and don't go it alone and don't underestimate it. But the other thing I like what I said earlier is, you know. It's the marketing and the and the store front of a website and all that stuff is in, you know, its purpose in life, as far as I'm concerned, is to help me sell and my team sell and marketing has to support what sales is doing and sales has to believe in what marketing is doing.
So, you know, make sure you are happy with the direction that it's going in, the vision that's being put in place, because you've got to sell it. You're the one out there selling. So you've got to believe in it and fight for it.
Wendy: Good advice. All right. So, Lee, from a marketer's perspective, parting advice.
Lee: Yeah, I think you know it. They've all hit on it already. But the planning ahead, I mean, this was a a year long process, so don't underestimate the time investment needed. Buy into it, come with open openness to it, and then be an active participant in it. Because, as Todd said, it is what you make it and what you want it to be as you carry it forward. So I think all of those things kind of coming together is just a winning combination.
Jeff: OK. I would just add on the back end and I think you Lee you touched on it is commit to it. And, you know, it's there is no one foot in, one foot out. It's once you make the decision, it's like a lot of things in life, you know, it's full commitment and don't continually second guess, you know, trust your instincts, trust the people you hire to help you and drive forward and then just sit back and watch your ideas take flight.
Wendy: All right. Well, everybody show their branded stuff.
We're all brand ambassadors, and for those listening and watching visit genuen.com. So Genuen is spelled G E N U E N. To learn more about the company and check out their new branding and this new service offering coming soon so that we have a little teaser too as well. So thank you for that Todd. Well, I appreciate everyone's time today and I hope those listening learned a bunch about rebranding and we'll see you on the next episode.
Thanks for being here.
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