Misconceptions About Engineering & Scientific Buyers

Too many marketing and sales professionals are targeting technical buyers with approaches that are either too aggressive, too fluffy, or too dry.

Sandy Williams, Biomedical Engineering Ph.D. and President of Access Biomedical Solutions, has seen too many marketing and sales efforts fail due to misconceptions about the technical buyer leading to ineffective tactics. Buyer personas are helpful, but overreliance on these can be dangerous. Sandy reminds us that these buyers are often innovating -- looking for new ways of doing things or solving new problems -- and by acknowledging and appreciating their uniqueness companies can build trust and gain more insights to influence the sale.

Fluffy content is a big trust-breaker. Sandy recommends quality over quantity, saying that technical buyers tend to lurk more than share, absorbing information incognito until late in the buyer's journey. Marketing attribution can be difficult with this type of behavior, with engagement metrics not telling the full picture.  

During the episode, Sandy shares a list of "don'ts" for technical marketing and sales professionals and provides greater insight into the minds of the engineer and scientific buyer. 

Resources

• Sandy on LinkedIn
• Access Biomedical Solutions
• Blog Post by Sandy: How to Pitch Your Idea Successfully with this Secret Weapon
• Research Report: 2021 State of Marketing to Engineers

Transcript

Today's guest holds a PhD in biomedical engineering. She's a business leader and she has five marketing certifications. So when it comes to advising marketing and sales, how best to reach the technical buyer, there's no better guest to have on my show show. You'll learn some of the misconceptions that we have about what technical buyers preferences are. We'll talk a little bit about complex buying teams and how best to package content to this discerning audience. Let's do this.

Welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered. Your source for building trust and generating demand with technical content. Here is your host, Wendy Covey.

Hi, and welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered. On each episode, I'll break down an industry trend, challenge, or best practice in reaching technical audiences. You'll and meet colleagues, friends, and clients of mine who will stop by to share their stories. And I hope that you leave each episode feeling inspired and ready to take action before we jump in. I'd like to give a brief shout out to my agency TREW Marketing. TREW is a full service agency located in beautiful Austin, Texas, serving highly technical companies. For more information, visit trewmarketing.com.

And now on with our podcast. Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Content Marketing Engineered. I'm joined today by Sandy Williams. She's the President and founder of Access Biomedical Solutions. Welcome to the show, Sandy.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

I am excited to get in your head today about how to reach technical buyers and so fun background fact about you that I think everyone will enjoy. You have a PhD in biomedical engineering and you have, like, five marketing certifications.

Okay.

Wow, Sandy, not everybody has that diversity in their profile.

It's an interesting combo, isn't it? Yeah. I spent, let's say, 25 years in school. So if there was any education to be had, I was going to go after it. So after my PhD, I also did a postdoc in biomedical engineering and in a very cool field regenerative medicine and tissue engineering, which is basically growing tissues and organs in the lab for patients. So I was really on an academic track, if you will, looking for faculty, research plans and things like that until a company approached me for a short consulting project.

And I did that. And I got to know the group. And shortly thereafter they offered me a full time position. So that was kind of major decision points. So I'm sure some people in your audience probably know people who are trying to make this decision. Academia, industry. It was a big one, a tough one. But I think I made the right choice for me at least, and went on the industry side. And there I started out as an engineer, but very quickly I had to take on business responsibilities, which I didn't have any education about.

So I became a business leader, leading a business unit in biologics and trying to figure out and pick up as much marketing and business skills as I could along the way. So those ten years was just a huge learning experience for me. And then after that, I started my own company and do a lot of marketing now. So that's kind of how it came about.

That is a big change, one from academia to industry and then two to go into the business world and really be a business leader. I'm so interested in your day to day role. How much you get into the technology and service delivery side of your business versus the blocking and tackling and sales and marketing.

Yeah, that's a great question, because I feel like I use my technical skills pretty much every day. I'm not solving differential equations. Right. So those are pretty much things of the past. But in terms of understanding a company's technology really understanding what they're trying to do, what problem they're trying to solve for customers. I bridge that gap between engineering and marketing with my skill sets, which I have found just very helpful and fairly unique in our space. And it's just very good to be able to communicate.

What is this technology actually going to do? Because, as you may have noticed, not a lot of engineers can really talk about the benefits. They're just so focused on specs. Right. This is the spec sheet. What more do you need to know? Well, you got to translate that for most people. So I kind of see my role as a translator a lot of days.

You mean the specs don't sell themselves? The product doesn't fly off the shelves sometimes not.

No.

Well, this makes a lot of sense. Now, as I looked at your LinkedIn profile, I saw that you describe yourself as an empathetic engineer. So I'm guessing this has something to do with solving people's pain points. But tell me, what do you mean by this? And why was it so important for you to include as a Marquee statement on your profile?

Yeah. It's really a big part of who I am. I really try to listen and understand before I jump in and say you should do this. You should do that. As you know, a lot of consultants kind of fall in that bucket. They go in advice blazing. I try to really listen, because sometimes clients will approach me with a problem they have. And after you do a little bit of digging, a little bit of listening, you realize that their actual problem is different. So the embassy comes in and wanting to help people make progress and accomplish their goals.

It's not always just about revenue generation. I'm in the biotech and Med tech space. That's pretty much all I do. So most of the people I would say everybody I've worked with, they're in it for the right reasons. They want to make a difference. They're trying to do something good in the world. So that is kind of an important component of a successful business, what kind of impact they're going to make? And so that's where the emphasis comes in understanding, patience, understanding clients and their goals.

Okay. So let's get into some details. As you know, our show really caters to business leaders, marketers and salespeople, trying to reach technical buyers. And here we have someone who's very technical and knows the sides of this. So I like to hear first, what do you think is different about marketing to a technical audience?

In a lot of ways, people are the same, right. At the end of the day, we're all people. So in terms of marketing, right.

All of us.

Exactly. It's the same. Right. All the basic principles of marketing, you still want to apply. But there's some things that I would say are a little different nuances that are important for a market or a business leader. To understand. One is technical audiences are really going to dive into the details of your claims. So as a marketer, we make a lot of claims, sometimes bold, sometimes ambitious, sometimes forward thinking claims. And the technical audience is going to want to know that you can support them, right, that you can substantiate your claims with data with information.

So they're going to dig into that. So you better have good data supporting your claims. And if you don't, it's okay. But you have to state them as kind of hypothesis or wishful thinking. Right. Don't make these bold statements.

That the fastest. But we're pretty fast, right.

If you're going to go for best at something, you better be able to substantiate it. So that's one big difference where they're going to dive into that and they're going to be really turned off if you don't support it.

That's why I've come across the other is before you move on to your next one supported. I know it depends greatly based on product service, what it is you're doing. But is it oftentimes running tests versus competitive products in a lab to be able to show that data show performance data or things of that nature? Are there other ways that you suggest you back up your claims?

Yeah. Obviously it depends on the claim. But if you have any peer review data, if it's clinical studies, if it's engineering specs, if there's publications, it's one thing to have done your own test at your own company. Everybody is obviously going to be a little bit more skeptical about that versus a third party unbiased. Yeah. Absolutely.

Okay. All right. What's your number two?

Number two is nobody likes to be sold to. Right. Well, engineers and scientists really, really don't like to be sold. So your sales pitch, which you're going to have to have, right. If you're a for profit business, at some point, you're going to sell and everybody understands that. But make sure it's a small part. It's a component of your content. If it's a webinar, if it's a presentation, don't make the whole thing a sales pitch, right. Because people are just going to tune you out and they're not going to hear a word you're saying.

The other thing that this technical audience is highly attuned to is veiled sales pitches, right where you try to sneak it in in a subtle but not so subtle way. So just don't if it's a sales pitch, say so it's a sales pitch. Keep it short and just simple. Don't elaborate and go on and on. People will appreciate that and will appreciate just being direct and forthcoming, not hiding it and trying to slide it in under the radar.

Yeah. So I always translate that to take a consultative approach where you're just there to help someone make a decision, whether it's your solution or someone else's. But that's maybe a little bit of a pie in the sky attitude, because I'm not a quota. So I like what you're saying here. There's this education component, but you have to get to sales sometimes. So just don't be sneaky or cheesy about it.

Exactly. And that's a great point about the questions. Right. And asking questions. That's my next point as marketers. Sometimes we try to develop this buyer personas, right. And kind of generalize the pain points people have put them in buckets. Well, technical audiences don't fit very neatly in buckets. In fact, they take great pride in being different, right? They want the novelty and originality and what they're doing. It's all about patents and doing unique things. So if you try to put them in a bucket, they're not going to like that.

So if you have a chance to be face to face, obviously, ask lots of questions, show interest. Try to understand if you are, it's just more general communication, some content you're putting out there and you want to get their attention. Just acknowledge that perhaps what they're doing might be a little different, might be a little unique. Just saying that. Well, just put their minds at ease that you're not trying to pretend that you know what they're doing and what they're experiencing through our kind of pain points discussions.

So that's another tip. Definitely. That's a difference for this audience.

And that's an interesting balance, because in the sales process, you're able to be one on one and really understand their unique challenges. But in marketing, obviously, we're one too many. And we don't have unlimited funds. And so you have to at some level, use these personas to at least narrow down how you're speaking to someone. But I hear what you're saying. Do it in a way that leaves the options open for. Okay. What they're doing is unique. But across certain segments or applications or whatever, there's still some commonalities of experiences that people have.

Is that fair to think about it?

Absolutely. It's a bit of an ego stroke, right. That. Hey, we know that what you're doing is super cool and slightly different. Right. But maybe you're also experiencing this problem. A lot of people in your space your similar roles are experiencing. So just a little acknowledgement like that can definitely go a long way.

Yeah. So be careful with your specificity, I guess, and make sure it's not too limiting that you alienate people that are these inventors and pushing the envelope. So really. Okay.

Good. Exactly. Part of it is. I mean, you mentioned the one on one, the face to face. And as marketers, we don't always get the chance to do that. Right. And so in a previous role, I did travel a lot with the sales team, and it was just very interesting watching the dynamics because I would go in as the technical support person, and I would just have a technical discussion, right? Just ask lots of questions. Try to understand. I never really had to ask for any sale or anything, right?

Like, at the end, they would be like, okay, so what do you have that could do this, right?

They would be asking you just described. I think what everybody would hope is the perfect sales process. I think you utilize enough education and that's helping others that they are like, okay, you know what you're talking about. I just need to put myself in your hands and you gain the trust.

Right that you're not just there to sell something like you really care and you want to learn what it is they're doing. So then they trust when you come up with some kind of recommendation, they trust that you've thought about it. You're not just trying to push the first product on them. You try to understand what it is would help them. So that's been definitely helpful.

Okay. All right. So then talk to me about the marketers. If I'm marketing to a scientific audience, engineering audience. What are some of the big mistakes that you see people making? You already mentioned one kind of trying to shoehorn them in to a specific pain point. What are some others?

Yeah. So there's a few dots, don't I would definitely kind of alert the group, too. One is, and it's a huge pet peeve of a technical audience. And I see it all the time. I hear it all the time. Just avoid the fluff.

That's got to be number one. It is my 18 year old daughter. Write all of our content that isn't good enough. No, maybe a little bit too fluffy.

Absolutely. No fluff. The fluff alert. The alarms are just going to go off.

Your credibility hangs. Of course.

Absolutely. You're almost going to be like blacklisted. So even if you do come up with something really good and useful, you just develop this reputation. They're not even going to look at it. So I really recommend quality over quantity. And I know as marketers, we want to be top of mind. We want to show up often. Some people don't forget about us, but try to strike that balance how often are you generating content? And is this content really adding anything, right? Is it useful? Is it a value and set the bar high just because you have, like, a little piece of nugget good information that does not make it high quality material.

So take your time. Put something together that people are really going to appreciate because they're going to remember, even if you're not showing up daily with content and you show up, maybe bi weekly or monthly with something really useful, they're going to remember and associate your company, your offerings with high value. Keep the bar. Yeah, that's definitely number one.

And then at a very distant number two.

No. If you're not seeing a lot of engagement, right. This is another difference between the technical audience and maybe some other audiences. They tend to be what I call lurkers. They're not just going to be liking and sharing and commenting left and right. They're not the most enthusiastic bunch about that. Sometimes they can be a little more in the background. So just because you're not seeing huge engagement, don't think that your valuable content is not being seen and read and everything, they tend to just observe and absorb information.

And I hear that all the time from just engineers and scientists I interact with, whether it's my own content or a client's content they're like, oh, yeah. The stuff you guys have been putting out is great engagement. They're noticing they're there and they're noticing they're not just very actively engaged. So that's just something to keep in mind before you pull the plug on something.

It's a good reminder, because the standard B to B metrics do apply towards looking at shares and likes and those types of things. I would say we're better off at looking at how many times do they come to your website and how long are they on your website and what pieces of content that they download. But of course, these same people don't want cookies. And so without cookies, you even lose visibility into that. So it can be tough as a marketer to not have those metrics to stand behind you.

And so it's nice to have this reminder of how they're actually acting.

Oh, absolutely. I would say probably at least 90% of the engineers I know they all serve incognito. They hate ads they hate. Yes. You're not going to see them in your data and your analytics very often. That's for sure.

I will say until we get to the form. And I feel like it's a big misconception that technical buyers won't fill out forms. We ask this question every year in our research, and I know you've seen our research before. I believe 87% will fill out a very short form, but only if the content is worthy, of course. So I think at least that's something they go from incognito to a name. We just don't see all of their past journey. Unfortunately.

Absolutely. And remember the comment about the fluff. Please, please do not date fluff. That's sure. Far away. You'll definitely turn them off big time. So my next one is really more for, like marketers working with leadership and not so much directly with the technical audience. And they have to do around just not over promising and under delivering, which sometimes it just gives marketing a bad reputation. Right. So it's very important to really think about what are the goals. What are you trying to accomplish? How are you going to measure it?

How are you going to show it? Especially if you're just starting out and you don't have previous data to rely on. Just be conservative in what you're promising the results will be and then think about results, like in terms of actual meaningful business results. Right. I've worked with a lot of companies that had marketing teams, and we kind of had to shift the thinking a little bit from activities, being busy and generating a bunch of stuff versus okay, what is actually happening? What are we getting the business, which is hard to do?

I'm the first one to acknowledge it is hard to measure. Right. And even attribution models going to revenue and figuring out that this piece of content generate this revenue, it's usually more complicated. But just saying we did this many blogs and this many webinars.

My pet peeve, too, along these lines is you should have a dashboard and then you have activity metrics. And I feel like the activity metrics are for the marketer to make sure that you're executing in a way that's in line with best practices. But your executive team could care less about your newsletter open rate, or how many people click they want to see that. Like you said, there's higher level metrics, more impact to the business. And as much as you can look for that attribution, even if it's just this piece of content assisted in what became the sale.

Not saying because of this piece of content that they'll happen. Come on.

Exactly. Yeah. And you see it all the time, and it just doesn't do us any good, right? It doesn't do a service, and it's just something that it really needs to go in marketing departments because the so what comes up a lot and we lose credibility. Right.

What are your favorite metrics that you feel are most marketing metrics that you feel are most closely tied to the business.

So we go a lot by what we hear from customers that approach us, right. Because I feel like that's where the value is the people that come to the company, you hear. Oh, I attended your webinar or I read this article and it was super helpful, and those are harder to get because you have to have the conversation and you have to have that closed loop between the sales team and the marketing team to get those anecdotal stories. But when they start adding up to a critical mass that's when you know your marketing is truly working, people are noticing.

So it could be like, for example, branding, right. So many leaders are like, this is all great, but we just spend a couple of $100,000. What did we get?

That is a tough one.

It is. But then we have customers that come and say, wow, your website looks so different and so cool, and they really like it, and they comment on it. Those things kind of tell you. Okay. You're on the right track. So unless you have really good marketing automation platforms in place and good attribution models, it's hard to measure revenue. So a lot of startups, smaller companies don't really have that line of sight. So you got to rely more on conversations to really uncover. Where did people come from?

And what did they engage with that you have put out there?

Yeah, that's fair. And helping sales to understand the importance of asking a question. And, hey, the more we know this, the better, the smarter we can invest and create more of the right leads for you salesperson. And, of course, having a field in your CRM where you can store this so that you can report on it. It's not just let me talk to sales and see what they're hearing. So there's some good middle ground here, I think.

And another big positive I've noticed, is that that disconnect between sales and marketing that used to be a very common thing in companies in the past. I'm seeing that gap shrinking considerably and probably because of the pandemic. I think sales teams have appreciated kind of digital marketing a whole lot more, right, because they didn't have the opportunity to rely on traditional ways of selling. So I've seen that gap really close, and sales teams becoming much more knowledgeable and appreciative and understanding of digital marketing. So now that communication, I feel like it has been facilitated and it's improved.

Yay. Good. We're headed the right direction. That's wonderful to hear. I've noticed a lot of sales people coming to us asking for advice on LinkedIn and how to utilize that tool.

Better.

Do you have any advice to salespeople and marketers out there trying to utilize that platform? Do you find it's a good place to reach technical buyers?

Oh, absolutely. And I've seen sales folks do a better job than Marketers on LinkedIn lately, and I love it. I just love it. It's no longer a conversation where you have to convince a salesperson that you should be on LinkedIn, and you should fix up your profile and you should engage on LinkedIn. They're on it. They're very engaged. At least the ones that I've been in touch with and communicate with. And I see in my space in Biotech and Medtech, they're super active and super engaged. And the other thing they're realizing is they're forming relationships that they're theirs.

They're not just their companies, so they can take those relationships and network with them. And even when they transition industries, you still see benefits, right. Because we're just an ecosystem. We're a network of people. So they're seeing the benefit that it's not just for my job today, what I'm doing right now, there's just a broader benefit, and they become connectors. That's the other beautiful thing that I see. They're not just here's our products, here's our brochure, which just turns people off. They connect them with others and other resources.

So that helps everybody at the end of the day.

Absolutely. What we found is that on LinkedIn, it's still humans connecting. Right. And so when it comes to say putting out a news story or a piece of content, people want to hear from a company leader or a technical salesperson with that content rather than the brand itself, because there's a person behind it and they share point of view about that piece of content. I think that's the winning marketing strategy is not just relying on your brand's account, but utilizing these spokespeople to get in front of things.

So anyway, it's been fun. I think it works really well for this audience. They're going here. I think also other online communities related to technical Association of some sort, the ones that have put money into making some digital interaction tools. They seem to be doing pretty well.

Yeah. Definitely the big no, no is don't connect with somebody and then send them a sales pitch. Right?

No. Right away.

If that happens, can we set up a call to talk about our product? Nobody wants that.

Yeah. In case you're in the market, can we talk on Tuesday? No, go away. Good reminder. And the automated ones are just even worse.

Absolutely. After I get a few of those, I just have to disconnect and follow that person because some are just they're like on it. They'll send you like, ten in a row. So please don't be that person.

Tell me a little bit. So oftentimes marketers and sales people are faced with either a long buying cycle where you have design engineers looking at something and maybe a defined win and their production win. Or there's buying team with a lot of different personas. I know I said that word personas involved in that team. So what are some of the ways marketers might approach this complex buying cycle?

The long sales cycles and long product development cycles. Sometimes they feel like never ending, right. Especially as launch States get pushed back further sometimes, which happens right. So as marketers, I feel like it's a big opportunity for us to build the audience and build the problem. So by the time you launch a product, the mindset has already been developed and the market is looking for a solution. So instead of being worried about, oh, I have this product launch plan and I want to hit Go and start my campaigns and it keeps getting pushed back.

Have a strategy of what comes before that, which is educating the market about what you're about to bring. Right. Because hopefully it's something new and different and solving a problem people have. So try to educate them about the nuances of that problem without really talking about your solution because they might still be in engineering and not fully vetted out and crystallized yet. So you don't need to go there. But it's an opportunity to build that audience, engage with the audience because you might be in a position to bring back to the engineering team feedback that will actually help them complete the development and focus on specs and product performance, things that they hadn't thought about.

So don't just put stuff out, see if you can engage and get feedback and that you pass on to engineering. I feel like that really increases your value as a marketing team. So it's not just a one way communication. So I would definitely look at that. And then the stakeholders. Yes, there is lots. Right. And you cannot go in anymore and say, who else should we be talking to? Who is the decision maker? That's not going to go very well, especially talking to an engineer. So I know you're not the decision maker.

Who is the decision maker here, right. It's kind of insulting, right.

Absolutely.

So it's more about really understanding the company, right. If you have a list of target companies you're going after or that particular account, do a little research. There's just so much information online right now. It is insane. The person you're talking with, right. You have an opportunity to bring up bits of information, pieces of information that they'll think. Oh, so and so should probably know this. That's a good way of uncovering who else is involved by giving them. Let's say your product will affect quality in a certain way.

Right. So now you know who the quality person is going to be, or there is a regulatory implication. So they might connect you with the regulatory stakeholder. So think about the value you're adding and what you're offering instead of just asking them, who should I talk to?

Yeah. And then I think marketing can help by having a value proposition for each of those types of stakeholders, even if it's not in the way of formal content, just messaging and helpful scripts or slides or whatever it is to give sales that ammunition to where they do get in front of that quality person. Okay. They have a story there that's different than the technical specifier that you started with.

That's exactly. Right.

Yeah. Good advice. Well, what else might marketers find surprising about technical buyers?

There's this kind of generalization right about scientists and engineers that they're introverts.

Well, certainly I don't think so. Right now you buff the trends.

I'm in the Amber. I have my moment. I'm in the middle range, but that can be true to some extent. But one thing that marketers might find surprising is how talkative these engineers can get. So if you're let's say you're doing interviews, you get a chance to interact. You might discover that they love the conversation. They love the chance to talk with somebody who might be more on the extroverted side because they don't interact with those folks a whole lot. Right. So it's kind of uplifting and interesting to them, and they can become super talkative and not just talk to you about their projects, which you probably will get an earphone more than you ever care to know.

You probably get it. But they might share a whole lot about the company, the leadership, the direction, future projects. So just really take your time, be a good listener, ask broader questions and don't get so specific. Like, what does this spec need to be in your opinion and just keep it to that. Don't just be all business. You'll discover they have many other sides to them as well.

This reminds me a little bit about the stories I hear with our TREW marketing writers when they'll interview a subject matter expert for white paper or some other technical content. And they'll have to just guide that conversation back to customer benefits and things like that because it goes so deep because the engineer or scientist is so excited about their solution, and it's like, okay, bring back up just a little but great points that you can extrapolate all kinds of information that will be helpful in winning that sale beyond just that particular.

Absolutely. And understanding the industry. Right. You can get some broader insights that you can find very helpful. And another one, my second one would be don't underestimate the entertainment factor, right. A lot of companies in this space are very traditional in their marketing efforts. There is just a lot of very dry content being put out there. Acronyms, right. It's like, Holy cow. So while you have to be in alignment with your leadership, right. Making sure you don't go too far, the technical audience still wants to be entertained, just like every other human being on the job.

So add a little bit of personality and add a little bit of wit and a little bit of humor, and people will appreciate that for sure. So sometimes people think, oh, it's a technical audience. We just keep it very technical, just numbers and facts. But they were, like a little bit of flavor added because it just breaks the monotony of everything else they dealt with that day.

Probably great point. And I have a good example of that. One of the companies we've worked with, they're called Vertech and their system integrators in control and automation, and they call their staff control freaks. And I think that's just a great witty example of having some fun, but also being memorable to what it is that you do. And even visually, the folks that are watching this on YouTube will see your Zoom background. It's fun. It's scientific I see some DNA strands and some hexagons going on. So it's sciencey, but it's kind of in crayon and with memorable colors, and it definitely has a tidier brand and something that I think will stick with people.

And if you're a marketer working for one of those companies, look for opportunities to bring in a little bit of that fun. Right. I worked for a company we had named all our conference rooms different, like football team names and just figure out what is the culture of the company. And don't just look externally, right. That my job as a marketer is to external audiences. Think about your own employees, your own team. What are some of the fundamental things you could do to just lift up morale and make it a fun place to work at?

Yeah.

And you're right. It starts with what is your culture? How do you define your brand? What tone do you want to take? So all of this really should be established and permeated into everything that you do. So good advice. Well, we need to talk a little bit about your company. I'd like to hear more about Access biomedical solutions and what you guys do.

Sure. Yeah. So I'm a solopreneur by design. So I've worked with contractors, but I'm not trying to build a consulting firm, so I've been doing this for six years now, and I absolutely love it. So it is really that intersection of engineering and marketing for biotech companies, biotechnology, Medtech, a lot of medical device companies. And I work on projects around product development. Helping companies develop products people want is how I call it. And then on the business and marketing side, helping companies become fundable. So that could mean developing their business plan, investor pitch deck, presentation, SBIR grant proposals going after funding, but how to position themselves to be truly eligible and desirable for funding.

And that's kind of where the marketing comes in. And then on the marketing side, it's more about kind of right. Sizing marketing for a company depending where they are, what their goals are, their milestones as marketers. A lot of times we tend to want to go overboard. Right. We want to do everything.

Wouldn't it be great? Yeah.

Email marketing should be content marketing. You should do it all. But not every company is in a position right to go after it all. And they shouldn't, depending on the stage they're at. So I really try to choose marketing that works for that company and just move them along. And it's everything from strategy upstream all the way down to tactics. So depending on what kind of resources the company has, I might be designing and launching the ads, or if they have a marketing team, just provide the direction and they execute.

Yeah. Great. Well, where can people connect with you and find more information about your company?

Sure. So the company website is accessibiomedsolutions. Com. But I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn so they can find me there. And I'm just happy to connect. I do a lot of networking, a lot of professional volunteering, and I feel like as marketers, we can all learn from each other. So I definitely welcome others who want to reach out.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your background and your perspective on all this. It was really interesting and I think very helpful for our listeners. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. It is a total pleasure.

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